Plagiarism

topic posted Tue, December 21, 2004 - 9:45 AM by  Robynne
I just received the most interesting little book for Christmas. It's called "The Macabre Alphabet" by Ben Wu. It's the most appalling example of plagiarism I've ever seen. Everything in it is a blatant ripoff of Edward Gorey. The most egregious example is the panel "The body festered Malodorously." It's an illustration of a dead woman lying face-down in the street - but the woman is _exactly_ like Mona from the last panel of Gorey's "The Loathsome Couple." Position, hair, hands, everything is the same. The only things Wu did to change it were to add some flowers to Mona's dress and change the background.

Further examples, unfortunately not including that one, are at www.ben-wu.com.
posted by:
Robynne
SF Bay Area
  • Re: Plagiarism

    Tue, December 21, 2004 - 10:14 AM
    Oh my GOD! He should be ashamed. He doesn't even MENTION Gorey as an influence, much less a rip-off scource.
    • Re: Plagiarism

      Tue, December 21, 2004 - 10:51 AM
      He does mention EG in his FAQs, briefly:

      Q: I noticed that your art seems to be a bit like Edward Gorey's art. Is it? — submitted by Frank Nitty
      A: Mr. Gorey is one of my favorite authors/artists. I do share some of his techniques but I try very hard to be original. I could never be another Edward Gorey and I won't try to be. I do like his art and I have a vast collection of his work, but I just do my own thing.
  • Re: Plagiarism

    Tue, December 21, 2004 - 1:32 PM
    Wow...I can't believe he gets away with that!
    There's also soemthing odd about his work, it's not fluid, like he is trying too hard to get a "look"
    • Re: Plagiarism

      Tue, December 21, 2004 - 4:28 PM
      I am overwhelmed with melancholy.
      • Re: Plagiarism

        Wed, December 22, 2004 - 9:32 AM
        At the very least he should acknowledge the influence of E.G. on his work. To blithely claim that he is doing his "own thing" is insulting...or maybe the tribe members are so close to the subject that we cannot think objectively...??? Nahhhh...tip him into a bog, says I!
        • Re: Plagiarism

          Wed, December 22, 2004 - 10:22 AM
          So he was a littlt too influenced by Gorey. he was also influenced by Beardsley, Japanese woodblocks and many many others.
          And if you look at MariNaomi' s post above , he DOES acknowledge Gorey's influence.

          All art is derivative, wither by technique or subject matter.

          This is not in anybody's defense, just pointing out what is already there
          • Re: Plagiarism

            Wed, December 22, 2004 - 3:49 PM
            Point taken and I agree re: all art is derivative. Note that I too was indulging in a bit of Devil's advocacy. Now, does that mean we can't tip him into a bog?
            • Re: Plagiarism

              Wed, December 22, 2004 - 4:16 PM
              no, we cant, neither can we send all his servants to the fair & shove him down the stairs.
              • Re: Plagiarism

                Wed, December 22, 2004 - 5:26 PM
                I don't know - I've gotten away with murder before!

                The acknowlegement of influence on the FAQ page just seems a bit forced.
                Like, well, after the first 100 letters came in asking me why I hadn't mentioned that I'm blatantly ripping off Gorey, I thought I'd address the question.
                A FAQ exists to ansewr the questions that the website didn't already provide.
                This tribe (and I'm sure were not alone) seems to think that his homepage should have a large disclaimer on the top apologizing for ripping off Gorey, instead of hiding it mid way down the FAQ page.

                On the other hand at least he had the courtesy/smarts to wait until Gorey died before publishing.

                Art as inspiration is one thing.
                Art as carbon copy is entirely different.
                Ask the RIAA if you're looking for a judicial law between the two.
              • Re: Plagiarism

                Wed, December 22, 2004 - 8:06 PM
                Well...ok! I am a little cross that there'll be no bog-tipping, but we must learn to live with disappointments. C'est la mort!
                • Re: Plagiarism

                  Wed, December 22, 2004 - 11:24 PM
                  shameful. there's having influences... and then there's changing a word or two to be "different".
                  ::flings herself over the parapet::


                  damn. still need to work on the vanishing bit.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Plagiarism

                    Mon, December 27, 2004 - 2:00 PM
                    ::catches PurrVerse as she flys over parapet::

                    Oh lookie what I found!

                    As for this issue of plagerism. Pretty blatant. Asian countries are notorious hide outs for copyright infingements, film rip offs ie bootlegging and the like. Its usually the last market that gets films because of their reputation. Id imagine books and art have similar issues.
                    • Re: Plagiarism

                      Mon, December 27, 2004 - 2:23 PM
                      Just about anything can & will get ripped off by people who can get it made cheaper in Asia.
                      • Unsu...
                         

                        Re: Plagiarism

                        Mon, May 23, 2005 - 8:55 PM
                        "Just about anything can & will get ripped off by people who can get it made cheaper in Asia."

                        Yes, I have heard it said that although the Italians make the best lovers, the Chinese make them smaller and cheaper.
                    • Re: Plagiarism

                      Mon, December 27, 2004 - 2:55 PM
                      True, but this particular book was published in the US by an American "writer."

                      I looked up the publisher's website - it turns out that they're one of those "publish it yourself" outfits. I guess Mr. Wu couldn't get his work published by an actual house because hey! he plagiarized!
    • Re: Plagiarism

      Mon, June 6, 2005 - 12:05 AM
      > There's also soemthing odd about his work, it's not fluid, like he is trying too hard to get a "look"

      I think I see what you mean, but that style may be intentional. It looks like one of his influences is 1960's art animation like "The Yellow Submarine", which sometimes was a bit clunky. There are the references like psychedelic lettering, round sunglasses, platform shoes, and shooting star graphics:
      www.ben-wu.com/samples_Th...n_title.htm
      www.ben-wu.com/samples_Th..._sample.htm

      Then there are the stiff-looking characters, along the lines of the "Eleanor Rigby" sequence in "The Yellow Submarine":
      www.ben-wu.com/samples_Un..._sample.htm
      www.ben-wu.com/samples_Un...s_title.htm

      As for plagiarism... looks like he has some interesting influences, including Edward Gorey among many others. That's a good thing, not a bad thing. He's not plagiarizing anything. Notice the keywords on his biography page, in particular the second item:

      "Ben Wu, Edward Gorey, Halloween, scary, creepy, macabre, morbid, books, book, art, drawing, drawings, illustration, illustrations, sketch, sketches, picture, pictures, gruesome, bizarre, strange, weird, eerie, shocking, outlandish, psychedelic, China, Chinese, story, stories, illustrated tales, illustrated tale, surreal".

      Comparing this type of influence with DVD / CD pirating is rubbish.
      • Re: Plagiarism

        Fri, September 2, 2005 - 9:28 PM
        >As for plagiarism... looks like he has some interesting influences, including >Edward Gorey among many others. That's a good thing, not a bad thing. He's >not plagiarizing anything.

        As I described in my initial post, he lifted wholesale one of Gorey's drawings for his own alphabet. If you compare them side by side, they are identical except for the background (a wall) and the flowers on Mona's* dress. That's not influence; that's outright copying.

        *from "The Loathsome Couple"
        • Re: Plagiarism

          Sun, September 4, 2005 - 1:56 PM
          This guy is a horrible artist and I'm not just saying that. There really doesn't seem to be any style besides that of an 8th grade drawing student. A really talented 8th grade drawing student, but nothing of his really impresses me. As far as the alphabet thing goes, the only thing I can saw is that he was trying to make Gashly more modern perhaps? I don't know. I just know that he could take a few more drawing classes and stop watching Burton movies.

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